Activism to Action: Latoya Nugent and Rainbow Railroad’s Crucial Work

Happy Pride, y'all! It's important to remember that Pride  is a protest, first and foremost. In this powerful episode, Latoya Nugent shares her emotional journey from renown LGBTQ+ advocacy in Jamaica to finding safety in Canada through Rainbow Railroad. (Latoya's interview starts at 9:59). 

Latoya Nugent is the Head of Engagement at Rainbow Railroad. Originally from Jamaica and currently residing in Toronto, Canada, Latoya was relocated from her home country due to the threatening environment created by her queer, feminist activism. In Jamaica, the legislative framework and societal attitudes lead to widespread violence, persecution, and discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community. Now, in Toronto, Latoya continues her work advocating for and supporting LGBTQ+ rights on a global scale with Rainbow Railroad.

(Donate to the Solidarity In Pride fundraising effort here)

Below are the key takeaways from this episode:

• Rainbow Railroad's Impact: The episode highlights Rainbow Railroad’s vital role in helping LGBTQ+ individuals from countries that criminalize being LGBTQ+, and their ongoing efforts to support those in need of international relocation and domestic resettlement.
• Navigating Legislation and Relocation: Latoya Nugent discusses the varying degrees of acceptance and legal support for LGBTQA+ people across the US and how anti-trans laws are prompting relocations within the country and to places like Canada.
• Latoya's Advocacy in Jamaica: Latoya shares her work in Jamaica, organizing pride events and advocating for LGBTQ+ visibility, despite facing significant legal and social challenges.
• Community and Financial Support: Emphasis is placed on the necessity for both financial contributions and volunteer efforts to support the resettlement and integration of LGBTQ+ refugees, including Rainbow Railroad's current fundraising goals. 

Find Rainbow Railroad + Latoya online

Rainbow Railroad: www.rainbowrailroad.org
Solidarity In Pride Fundraising Campaign ($2million goal this June)
Volunteer with Rainbow Railroad
Latoya’s story https://youtu.be/R7XnmT7X2UA

Rainbow Relocation Strategies
The Adventure Calls podcast is brought to you by Rainbow Relocation Strategies, the first and only LGBTQ+ centered company empowering queer folks and their families to move, live and thrive abroad. 

Rainbow Relocation Strategies www.rainbowrelo.com
Instagram: @rainbowrelo
Community: Queer Expats Facebook Group
Book: How To Move Abroad
Host: Jessicadrucker.com

The Adventure Calls podcast is a bi-weekly podcast that seeks to empower queer folks to move, live and thrive abroad with interviews with relocation experts, queer expats who have successfully relocated and other organizations that give a lens on the LGBTQ+ experience in the world. 

Transcript

0:00

There's no question that when you're able to lift someone permanently from a site of trauma And, you know, facilitate their relocation to some place where they can begin to live their life again, and to live it with dignity. It's the most powerful and revolutionary thing I think I've ever seen. And and I'm able to live it and experience it, each day. Hello to all my queer folks and allies ready to move, live, and thrive abroad. I'm Jess Drucker, and you're listening to the Adventure Calls podcast. Of course, it's June, so happy pride. It's pride season. Now, it's always, like, really humbling and important to remember that pride isn't just a party. Pride is a protest and of course, the first pride parade started the year after the Stonewall riots in New York City over 50 years ago. And while that might feel really far away for some, 50 years, we can't forget that LGBTQ folks and activists are still fighting for queer liberation around the world. And you're gonna hear today's podcast guest, Latoya Nugent of Rainbow Railroad. She says it Jess, none of us are free until all of us are free. And the more I learn about queer movements worldwide, I realize that there are way fewer of us who are free than I ever really realized before. So when I think about this and I think about the first time I heard about Rambo Railroad, this is a point of, like, very deep contemplation for me, especially lately. So I was doing a webinar on how to move to Canada for queer folks, and one of the Canadian immigration lawyers is gay and mentioned that he gave time to this organization called Rainbow Abroad. And I knew immediately that this was a reference to the underground railroad and getting people to safety, and it just hit me. Here I am empowering queer folks in the US, mostly, to relocate abroad through my company, Rainbow Relocation. And they're doing the work of helping queer folks around the world relocate to the US and Canada and Germany and Ireland and other countries, but to the United States. And it's just been something I've really been thinking about a lot lately. What some of you might not know is that when I started this work back in 2019, 2018, I wrote a book and started helping people move abroad. Most people were reaching out because they wanted an adventure, hence the name of this podcast, Adventure Calls, and my media company, Adventure Calls Media and Consulting. It was really all about the adventure. The clients I was working with were like, they wanted to live abroad and have an adventure and possibly fail and move home rather than live with the pain and regret of never having taken the chance. They really wanted to live a different life, make a change, and have an adventure. And then as time progressed, I noticed my clientele was expanding and changing into a different type of expat. These were queer folks, their families, and LGBTQ allies who wanted a plan b, a backup plan, an escape plan. So, sometimes, the reason why people come to me is because politically, socially, legally, it might be becoming too difficult to live in the United States. And so, while a lot of them are still interested in, like, the adventure of it, their motivation is because of a general feeling of lack of security and honestly, fear. I try not to lean into that fear a lot, especially not on this podcast, but when you really think about it, 50 8 bills were brought before the US state legislature in 20223 that were anti LGBT. Roe v Wade being overturned in 2022 was largely seen as a slippery slope against LGBTQ rights coming next, and trans folks have been experiencing pain and suffering of being a political lightning rod in a way that has never been seen before. So it can be easy and totally understandable why queer folks in the US are looking for an escape plan. And then I find out about Rainbow Railroad, and those folks are coming to the United States as a haven because they're coming from places where being LGBTQ is, at best, not protected by law, and so they experience discrimination. At worst, being LGBTQ is criminalized, punishable by jail sentences of, like, 15 years or more, and even death. And so there's a lucky few who apply to Rainbow Railroad, and they are actually able to relocate them safely to Canada, Ireland, Germany, and also here to the US. And I just find that to be such a strange place to live. Local queers are scared and looking to move, and people from abroad are call looking to move here. The fight is so personal, and for professional activists, they're fighting around the world for queer liberation in their country. They do so at the expense of their physical safety and their own mental health, and none of us are free until all of us are free. And so on today's podcast, to kick off pride month, I really wanted to talk to someone from Rainbow Relocation, and, boy, am I so excited to tell you who I have today. We have a fighter, an activist, someone who, at the end of the day, chose to seek a new life in Canada through the assistance of Rainbow Railroad. And the best part, now she works there as head of engagement. Latoya Nugent is a black, queer, refugee, feminist activist with over 15 years experience in education and Rainbow, advocacy. Her activism in Jamaica included the promotion of LGBTQ rights through J FLAG, one of the most well known civil society organizations in Jamaica. Her activism was known internationally. She designed and led a significant body of work in the Caribbean at the intersection of queer identities, black feminism, and financial freedom. When she was arrested in Jamaica in 2017, which you're gonna hear us lightly touch upon in this episode, It sparked international outrage. Her treatment while in detention was so intense that her friends and family really began to worry about her deeply about a recovery after that happened. And it was during this sort of low point in a very serendipitous time that she became connected with someone at Rainbow Railroad. And now, just 18 months later, she leads the organization's design thinking and strategic engagement with partners and the public, and she deepens the understanding of the mission and galvanizes support for the global queer liberation movement. Before we get to the interview with Latoya, I wanna give a bit of background on Rainbow Railroad to Jess to be sure that we're clear on the organization and what they do. Rainbow Railroad is a global not for profit organization that helps at risk LGBTQ plus people get to safety worldwide. In a time where there are more displaced people than ever, LGBTQ plus people are uniquely vulnerable due to systemic state enabled homophobia and transphobia. These factors either displace them in their own country or prevent them from escaping harm. And as a direct result of Rainbow Railroad, over 13,000 LGBTQ plus individuals have found safety through emergency relocation, crisis response, cash assistance, and other forms of assistance. You'll hear Latoya Relocation that over 15,000 applications come into the organization annually from over a 140 countries. So the work is not just about relocating abroad, but resettling to safer parts of the country and providing resources. I really want you to know that upfront, there are ways that you can help. As you can imagine, they need more resources. And during Pride Month, you can check out Rainbow Railroad solidarity and pride fundraising effort. The link is in the show notes of this podcast for you to either donate or create a fundraiser yourself to help collect funds from your own communities. You'll also hear us talk about Communities of Care, the program. In our in the episode, you'll hear us talk about that. The link is also in the show notes. So WelcomeCorp is a US government program that connects US citizens or permanent residents with refugees seeking resettlement. And Rainbow Railroad is the first queer organization partnering with Wellcomecor to bring at risk LGBTQ plus refugees to the United Strategies, and there's also a similar program in Canada. And lastly, this is something I I just really wanna talk about when we talk about seeing how you can help. I wanna talk about community. Nowadays, with influencers and content creators and honestly, like any store you shop online at and give them your email address, you're part of their community. The Lululemon community, the Taco Bell community. But what really is community? What truly makes community is not that we align on the type of product we like or the service we like. Let's talk about this community, our community, the LGBTQ community, or the community that listens to adventure calls. If you listen to the show regularly, you're someone who has a desire for freedom in your heart, you wanna explore and live on more parts of the planet before you die, You wanna live amongst different types of humans. You wanna have an adventure. You wanna live safely, securely, and freely as a queer person. People today are more mobile than ever. They can explore the world more than ever. And while Rainbow Railroad is working tirelessly to actually change lives of queer folks who were born on the other side of a line that keeps them more oppressed and less free just because they're queer. I feel like it's our job as part of the LGBTQ community, as part of the community interested in being able to move freely through the world, that we do what we can to help support Rainbow Railroad so that they can make an impact on actual human beings. If you enjoy this interview or you are as inspired by LaToya as I am, take the time to visit rainbowrailroad.org and consider how you can support the international queer community. Okay. And now, let's get into it with Latoya Nugent of Rainbow Railroad. Latoya, thank you so so much for being here today. I am very excited to talk to you. Today, we've got Latoya Nugent from Rainbow Railroad. And I've already said this to you a little bit before the call, but when I first heard about Rainbow Railroad, I was immediately inspired. I needed to know everything. I started reading press releases, anything I could read on the website because, of course, the name immediately made sense to me, what was going on here. And I'm gonna let you talk a little bit more about that. I don't even pretend to be able to summarize the way that you'll be able to, but I wanna give so much space today to talk about the work that you do with Rainbow Railroad, Latoya. And, also, if you don't mind, let's kick things off talking about a little bit about you, the work that you do at Rainbow, and then I'd really like to get into your journey because it is quite a story and incredibly inspiring. So first of all, Latoya, tell us a little bit about yourself, where are you from, and what do you do at Rainbow Railroad? Thank you for having me, Jessica. It's really lovely to be here. I am Latoya Nugent. I am the head of engagement at Rainbow Railroad. I currently live in Toronto, Canada, my new home. Previously, I lived in Jamaica, which is my country of birth, and because of the very homophobic and, transphobic queerphobic culture, legislative framework, attitudes of the society towards LGBTQ plus people. It really was not a safe place for you to live, freely with dignity. And many LGBTQI plus people in that country experience a lot of violence, persecution, and discrimination because of our identity and because of the people that we choose, who we choose to love. And, you know, I mean, I know we'll get into it, Jessica, but I've had a very interesting and perhaps contentious experience living in Jamaica because I was, a very active Caribbean region. Very committed for a very long time to trying to change the cultural attitudes of people towards my community. But that kind of advocacy and visibility really comes at a very high price. For some people it costs them their lives, for some people it costs them their freedom, For some people, it cost them their dignity, their wellness. For me, it cost me my freedom. I was, arrested for a lot of the work that I was doing. At the time, I experienced a lot of homophobic sexual harassment, you know, and because you're doing the work and you're a bit of an inspiration to many people in the community, when a lot of the homophobic experiences, happen, you know, I would I would play them down. I wouldn't talk about them openly or publicly because I didn't want people to feel hopeless or to create a sense of hopelessness among people who are looking to you for that kind of inspiration. So it was very it was always a very complicated journey for Move, but what I realized in doing that, I didn't take care of myself. You know? And, I I think the arrest for me was the tipping point. That's when everything just came crashing, burning, tumbling down, like, however you want to phrase it. And that's when I realized just how badly wounded I was by that country And the ways that I did not, take care of myself because I was so committed to the work and committed to queer inspiration. But it really does take a toll on you and I really Jess, I couldn't function anymore. You know? I I said to my colleague just recently that I feel like Rainbow Railroad found me when I was in the deepest, darkest place possible, you know, trying to go back into the closet, and Jess, not feeling hopeful about life, you know. And I always marvel at even the origins of this organization that there were a group of advocates here who decided that we wanted to do more to help, persecuted LGBTQ plus people all around the world. And and this is what they gave birth to. You know, taking from the underground railroad of, you know, mobilizing people from the, from the, from the South to, you know, relocate them to other parts of America that were kinder to, to black people. And so I I think I think I think about my work maybe a little bit differently, and some of my colleagues perhaps, and I because in a lot of ways, I feel like, I really would not be here sitting, having this conversation with you today if it wasn't for the vision of an organization like Rainbow Abroad, recognizing what's happening globally to the queer community and stepping in as much as it can to offer, you know, another opportunity for people to recreate what it means to find home and feel like they belong. Wow. I mean, what a journey. I do wanna get into it a little bit Move. But while we're on the topic of Rainbow railroad, I have to be careful not to say rainbow Relocation. That's the company. But Rainbow Abroad, I mean, you know, Jess, you explained it obviously, you know, hearkens back to the south and and black folks escaping to the north through the railroad. But my my my question is interviews of the work that Rainbow Railroad does, I mean, how how many applicants are you seeing from around the world, and how many can you, at this point, actually relocate? What percentage of them are you relocating sort of annually? What what numbers or data do you share? Alright. So we the kind of support we provide is not just with relocation because there are some people who just can't relocate for, you know, passport, immobility reasons and and other reasons. Mhmm. But we do try to provide in country support. So when you total all of the support we're able to provide through all of the programs that we offer Currently, you know, based on our 2023 numbers, we've been able to support, about 47 or so percent of the people who reached out to us. Interestingly enough, last year, we got a record number of requests for help from people, you know, in over a 100 countries. And that total number was 15,352. And it's it every year, you know, at least over the the the past 5 plus years that we've really been tracking this data closely, we're seeing an increase in the number of people who are reaching out to us for support. And while we are able to support an increasing number of individuals, it still feels like a drop in the bucket. Because even though we're getting, you know, upwards of 15,000 people requesting help, There's still several 1,000 more who don't even have enough access to be able to reach out to us for, you know, for help or for support. And we we are not able to relocate as many people who need relocation. So even though last year, we were able to help a little over 7,000 people, you know, through all our programs, some of those individuals would have wanted to relocate, but they just, we just weren't able to facilitate that kind of support for him because I don't know if you know this, Jessica, but it is extremely difficult and very costly to actually get people to safety, especially when they're living in countries that place a lot of restrictions on their movement and where, you know, countries even like the US place a lot of restrictions on who is able to enter into their country. So it's very because it's so complicated and because it's so costly, we're not able to relocate all the folks who are really in need of Relocation. But as much as possible, we try to provide in country support, or sometimes, we are able to facilitate relocation within a country. So one part of the country may be more hostile than another part, or they can find, you know, some temporary safety in one part of their home country. And so we try to facilitate that as well. And, yeah. And and and that's right. I mean, you know, you're dealing with folks who are not only in countries where there's limited passport mobility in the first plus. They might not even have passports or the ability to travel internationally. But then as you said, immigrating to, is it primarily the US and Canada that are the countries that that people would be able to? So it's, the US. It's Canada. We also have people who relocate to places like Germany, Relocation, the Netherlands. Right. So yeah. So it's it's not just, North American countries. There are some countries in Europe where people relocate. And interestingly enough, there are also a few countries, in South America that people have an interest in relocating to as well. Right. Yeah. And then, you know, I think so another question around this this work is so I think there are about 10, give or take, countries that actually have, like, the death penalty or very severe jail time just for being LGBTQ. And then there are other countries that criminalize. I think there's another, like, 3rd of the world that criminalizes being LGBTQ in some capacity. And then there are, you know, another 60 some countries that just decriminalize it but have no, like, legal support. And then, of course, there's a third of the world that has some sort of, like, legal framework for supporting queer folks. Is there any prioritization within your organization? Like, do you work with countries that are, like, there is actually, like, a death penalty or life imprisonment or I think it's, like, 15 plus years in prison? Are those the countries that you prioritize, Or is it more like just trying to chew through a huge list of people that are requesting help? Right. So each each request is different and the circumstances will vary. What I will say is that we track, the data on criminalization. And so many of the countries where we actually provide support to individuals, they live in, you know, one of these 60 plus countries where being LGBTQI plus is criminalized one way or the other. In some countries, the punishment may be more severe, and those countries may sometimes require a little bit more investment allocation. But generally we try to focus on supporting individuals who live in countries where they have been criminalized. Recognizing though that, to to the point you made earlier, even though there are countries that don't criminalize people, there's no legal support. Right. And, you know, they call still experience different forms of discrimination, and we do get requests from, quite a number of countries. Even in con even countries where people, Move some protections, you know, including countries like the US, there are people for specific reasons who will still reach out to the organization for support because, you know, again, people are looking for communities where they can be their whole selves. You know, they're they're they're looking to they want to be able to live, work, and play with pride, you know, and and and to do that with dignity as well. And so we've I think last year, for example, we got requests from a little over a 140 countries across the world. So if you think about the countries where it's criminal to be LGBTQI plus, but then there are also some other countries where you're not criminalized, but you still experience, different degrees of, discrimination. You can understand why so many countries call be represented in the data that we collect annually. Yeah. God, it's so it's just so maddening to hear you say these numbers. I mean, I think it's like we know that. It's you know, some of us know this, like, generally speaking, but just to think about a 140 countries and all those requests, it's it's maddening. But and one of the reasons why I wanted to give space and air to to the work that you do with Rainbow Railroad on this podcast is while I, you know, work to help queer folks move Abroad, and, obviously, a lot of times this is done by choice, I think this audience also has quite a lot of privilege in Americans, obviously, to the people that you're helping call also our members of the queer community or allies to the community. And so it's I think it's important for our community, whether we're thinking about moving to the south of France because we wanna or because maybe we're starting to feel unsafe here, which we I do wanna get into with you, the tensions in the US, of course, and I do wanna touch on that. I think there's a a a responsibility, a sense of community that we can have to become aware of the work that you do and for us to help in the ways that we can because there is a level of privilege for folks who are looking to relocate willingly and on their of their own accord. And so, yeah, I I just wanna bring as much awareness to the work that you do as possible now on the show and, of course, also moving forward, however I can help. I think it's really important for queer folks to work together to I mean, I don't know if we'll ever solve this these issues. But I think this audience is is really a good audience to talk to in terms of helping out with Rainbow Railroad and however it is that we can contribute. And I'll, of course, at the end of this show, I'll give you a chance to, like, sort of just pitch how people can help, obviously. Before we get to I do wanna talk about the US a little bit because it's just such a such a strange situation. I wanna just go back to your story because you have been working in the activist space for probably as long as you can remember. Can you just talk a little bit about, like, what what was, like, the activist work that you're like, what's it actually look like, the activist work that you were doing in Americans, I guess, across the Caribbean, you said? To itself is a very interesting place. And, you know, back in the day when I was there and I was active, I used to talk about 2 Jamaicas. So there was the Jamaica for people who had the resources to try to, you know, eke out a living as a queer identified individual and, you know, could kinda sort of fly under the radar, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. There, there, there would also be, you know, individuals who would, like publicly affirm their queer identity. And again, because they had the resources, they, you know, were able to protect themselves. But for a significant majority of, LGBT purpose people in Jamaica, They didn't have that luxury. And it really is a luxury in Jamaica to be able to live with any kind of dignity in any moment. You can't do so in a sustained way. It's just not possible because of the reality of the discrimination that exists. But, as far as my advocacy was concerned, one of the things I've focused a lot on was creating space for the LGBTQ plus community to just be, to be in community with each other, to affirm, you know, themselves and to affirm each other. I also was involved in a lot of policy work and legislative work, you know. So we have I don't know if you've heard about what's commonly referred to as the Bughril Law. So, you know, these these would have been like colonial laws that we would have inherited from, you know, British rule that make it illegal or criminal, make it a criminal act for people of the same sex to be intimate with each other. And we're talking about adults. So in other words, you, you can't, even if you're an adult, you can't consent to same sex intimacy. We also have a constitution that protects your rights depending on your marital status. So if, for example, you are a heterosexual person and you're you're you're married, there are certain civil rights that you have access to. If you are queer and you're in a same sex relationship, you absolutely don't have access to those same kinds of civil rights. Right. And and so a lot of the, like, legislative advocacy we did was was to. It was informing the community, the queer community about where the, you know, the the, like, the legislation or the constitution prohibited their access to certain rights. At the same time, trying to advocate with governments to change, you know, some of, some of some of these pieces of legislation that had real impact on people. So if you have a same sex partner, for example, and you work inspiration government departments, you couldn't access something like compassionate leave if your partner was ill because, technically, your partner, you know, does not count as a partner, because of the laws. And so the the way that marriage was defined was something that was very problematic. It's very restrictive, and it may seem like a simple thing, but because of the definition of marriage, it affected Drucker pieces of legislation, including like queer domestic violence prevention, you know, legislation. And so the same kinds of protections that a partner, and I say in a heterosexual marriage, you know, would have access to some, you know, partners in same sex relationships didn't have access to the same kinds of rights and protection. So it was, you know, it was just just it was just a way a lot of the rights were linked to just that one definition of marriage in our to. And it really, you know, it it had a it has a negative impact on how people are able to live their lives and how they're able to access their rights. We've seen though, you know, some improvement, in terms of what what what was happening across the Caribbean. So in 2015, 15, I was a part of a I'm calling like a rebel group. But in 2015, I was a part of a group of activists who decided that we were going to attempt to have pride celebrations in Jamaica. It's not the pride celebration that you're probably accustomed to in the US or in Canada, you know, where there's a parade or anything like that, you know, that would have definitely been too dangerous. But what we did, it was in, you know, in 2015 to coincide with the emancipation and, you know, Jamaica independence period, was that we had a series of events over a few days where we got the community to come together, we got our allies to join us, and we had a series of events. We did this, you know, wonderful flash mob in the heart of Kingston. Everybody was scared and bold at the same time because, you know, we didn't know what would happen, it was incident free thankfully. We also, you know, one of the things that was important in in my advocacy at the time was actually getting people from the LGBTQIA plus community to to be actively involved in giving back to the community, even though the community hated us or discriminated against us. And so there was a day of moving, we we we called it the organization I was working with at the time was J Flag, and we call it J Flag Cares. And we, you know, we made sandwiches for people who were affected by homelessness and and that sort of moving, and, you know, we'd go to to to homes that catered to elderly individuals and sit with them, talk with them, read with them, and and that sort of moving. Just so that people could see beyond the people's sexuality and see us as citizens, see us as human beings. You know? So, and for individuals call feel about themselves, like, they are worthy. You know. Like, there's something about giving that does that to to individuals, you know. And and we had, you know, like, we created opportunities for people to share their talent. It doesn't seem so rebellious. And to me, it's great to refer to yourself as a rebel. Because it was. This kind of work. Yes. I mean, of course it is. But it's just it's just absolute insanity. I I just can't imagine what it is like to do such positive, affirming work and not and have that be such a dangerous activity. Yeah. I can't imagine what that's like. It is. It absolutely is. And the thing, I mean, I don't know if other activists experience this, but, I know I I said this earlier, but it's it's something that I didn't even realize until I was able to relocate to Canada. Just the amount of damage you do to yourself, trying to do that work inspiration unsafe space. Of course. You know? Yeah. Well, you don't even give yourself time to breathe. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're and you're sitting there, like you said, which I just my heart, like, left out at you when you said it, but it's, like, you're trying to be the strong one. You're trying to not let other people know how it's hurting you. So you're not even letting it in, really, because Exactly. You can't be honest about that because you're supposed to be the leader. Right. But that you're call, like, a human being. Yeah. Yeah. But you you you forget that in the works sometimes. Of course. Yeah. And and you have to be strong for people if you're gonna lead them, but I I just can't imagine. So how did you end up getting to was Canada where you first went? Did you go through, like, the US or anything, or did you go straight to Canada? And was it with Yeah. Abroad? Right. So it was Rainbow Railroad that supported me to come to Canada. And I come I I I came here straight from Jamaica. And you found was it something where, like, you had been informed of Rainbow Railroad or like, how did you even find out? Yeah. So, so that's interesting because while I was working in Jamaica, I, I was aware of the organization. Maybe not as much as I am now, obviously, but I knew, you know, at a high level what they did. But I I never thought, again, to the the point I made earlier about not really seeing myself as somebody who needed that kind of support and protection, I never thought that I would be a beneficiary of the work that the inspiration does. It wasn't until I went to I attended this conference, I think it was in 2022, in Barbados. It's a conference that's held annually in different countries across the Caribbean, you know, particularly for women and gender non conforming people in the LGBTQ plus community. And I I was in a session, and this session was, about, you know, like inspiration and forced displacement and that sort of thing. And somebody who was working at Rainbow Abroad at the time was on the panel, and they started to share their own personal journey. I didn't know them before. I met them only at the conference, but they were sharing their own personal journey. They're actually from Americans not through Rainbow Railroad, but through some other means they were able to relocate to Canada, having fled persecution in Jamaica. But, eventually started to work at Rainbow Railroad because they were at the conference representing Rainbow Railroad. And I listened to them tell their story, talk about their journey, and then talk about the work that they were doing at the organization. And I realized that I started to cry. I am probably one of the shyest people you'll ever meet. And so when I realized that I started to cry, I I I rushed out of the room because I didn't want anybody to see me crying and to, you know, as they say, compose myself. And I don't know. There's just something that hit me in the moment. Like, why do you keep doing this to yourself? Mhmm. You are harming yourself, you know. And I must have the courage to go up to the individual. And I, you know, I was just, making conversation, talking about some of the work I was doing with with young women, at a university campus at the time and, you know, supporting folks who were invisibilized or discriminated against because of their queer identity. And so, you know, I was talking, you know, in my activist voice saying that, you know, these women, I think they could benefit from this kind of work because many of them, they call go through their university career and safe spaces would be created for them at the university. But when they get out into the world, it's going to be next to impossible for some of them to even land a job or to feel safe and secure in that job. So, you know, that was how I was, talking to them about potential partnership. On behalf of other. Right? The service department. Yes. Yes. You know, and, she looked at me and just choose she was telling me that she knew about my work. She knew who I was. Oh, wow. And, like, that struck me, you know, and she was like, this is, like, how I was showing up at the conference, you know. She was like, this is not how this is not the Latoya she she knows because she knows me as bold and brave, and I kinda seem, you know, quiet and so on. You know? But we had a good conversation. I told her I would reach out. And when I went back to Jamaica, and I was I I reached out, and we're talking again along the same line, and then she was like, I know that you need this. You, Latoya, you need this. So, you know, just just cut to the chase. And, something came over me, and I just started just I was because we were typing. I was just started typing everything that was happening to Move, everything I was feeling and experiencing, and I was crying and typing and crying and typing. It's like something just it's almost as if there's something, you know, locked up this entire time. And for some reason, this like, in that moment, that particular conversation Jess, opened up everything, and I I couldn't stop talking. And, you know, when I was done, she was like, you need this. But you have to decide if this is the journey you're going to to take. You know? And I was like, I'm I'm ready. And I just I I went through the the the the case processing, and they made it happen. And I've been in Canada for maybe about 18 or 19 months now. And I'm telling you, like, these these months because I I arrived in November 2022. And Right into the cold weather. And I feel like, wow. Like, this is what it feels like. Just live and be a person, you know, and to just be respected for who you are, to be honored. You know, Like, it's I know it may sound like really simple and maybe even silly to some people, but to just be able to walk down the street and not have anyone harass you or, you know, like her slurs at you that make you feel less than, like, it's it's so powerful. It it because I and I see it in the way that I even show up, you know, at at work or just in life. Even when I talk with my family back home after I relocated, you know, they told me that they heard so much hopefulness in my voice. I didn't even know how worried they had become about me, you know, because I'm telling you, like, the the arrest, the experience of the arrest because it was so brutal and because the conditions in the lock up, you know, were so horrible. And and the police officers, like, they they were unnecessarily violent. Not that violence is ever necessary, but they the the things they said and the things they they did, I mean, it it really, really broke me. And so for a very long time, you know, I was just a shell of who I always was. And I didn't realize that my family noticed. You know? And so after I relocated and I was talking with them on the phone, you know, they're commenting that they were hearing so much joy in my voice and that I was excited about life again and all of that, you know, and and I I credit so much of that to to the organization because so there are so many there are thousands of people in the world who need that. They just need somebody. And in this case, it's an organization to lift them up out of that. And that is what the organization does, you know, recognizing that a lot of LGBTQ plus people are left behind, even in this resettlement system, you know, like, globally. It's difficult for, for queer people to access it, much less to navigate it. But that is, that is where we stepping. That's the kind of work we do. And that's why I feel so strongly about the work of the inspiration, because I don't think I've ever seen another organization have such a tangible and transformative impact on somebody's life. You know? You're you're living you're living the experience. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. You Move you move people from the site of trauma and healing begins. And not it's not I think journey is, you know, all rainbows the minute you land in Canada or Germany or wherever. There is some struggle in that, and, you know, that is that is something that you navigate and and you'll you'll learn to to to to to figure out as you go along. But there's no question that when you're able to lift someone permanently from a site of trauma, And, you know, facilitate their relocation to some place where they can begin to live their life again. And to live it with dignity. It's the most powerful and revolutionary thing I think I've ever seen. And I'm able to live it and experience it, each day. My goodness. I mean, I'm so sorry that all that happened to you. It's it's infuriating. I'm so excited for you. I mean, I didn't realize you're kind of like brand new in Canada. You're brand new. I mean, that's not 18 months. It's nothing. That's nothing. You're still figuring out how, I mean, I'm sure you got public transportation down, but like you're still figuring out how things work. Probably still not clear on what poutine is. I mean, I don't know. Wow. I mean, you're just going through so much. I can't imagine how much you're going through at the moment, just like acclimatizing, first of all. And then like you said, just being able to walk with some dignity and and leave all that stuff behind. I mean, it's it's something that, you know, when we talk about things like privilege, like, those are the things that you that that is beyond, that you can't even know what that is like. I can't know what that's like the way that that you can. And hearing you talk about it is so important because there is so much that I I even though I feel similar in some way, I mean, I think just being queer, you're you're you're always bracing in some way. But hearing your story, it's like it makes you understand just how many paper cuts you're feeling on a daily basis until you're able to walk away from that and heal from those. It's it's important for you to tell this story, like, far and wide, honestly. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And and and I think that Canada is a lot more together, I think, than the US. Right? Would you have relocated any like, if they had said you're moving to the US, would you you would have relocated to the Plus, or what was it for you Canada that you really wanted to go to, or what was the or Germany or, you know, what was the how'd you end up in Canada, basically? Yeah. So if if you Move me, like, a list of 10 countries where I could potentially relocate to, the US and Canada would be in that list of 10 countries. Okay. I must admit that Canada would probably be yeah. Maybe number 1. And and I think Ireland, for some strange reason, would be number 2. I don't know. I spent some time in Ireland before, and I I know there's something about the the greenery, you know, that really spoke to me. And maybe the 3rd yeah. And and maybe the 3rd country would have been the US. So, you know, it it would definitely be in the top ten, but I would be particular about which city or state. You know, similar to the the underground railroad. If you think about the fact that, people were moving from one part of the same country to another part, you know, because some parts of this of that country were more welcoming or safer for black people at the time. And that's kind of how I see the US now. Yeah. There are some parts of the US, that are so welcoming and affirming, supportive, protective of LGBTQA plus people, but then there are some parts, that are not the friendliest or or, you know, the the warmest place for us to be. So I I think maybe if I had relocated to the US, I probably would have been in some plus like DC or, I I don't know, New York maybe. Yeah. Or yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely there's definitely in the Plus. There's there's very few bubbles that you can live in, but you don't necessarily have the same kind of freedom of movement. Like, you have to really you do. I mean, there's there's there's LGBTQ people living everywhere, but the distress that people are under is I'm not gonna say anywhere near probably what you were experiencing in Jamaica. But from what I'm hearing from people that I work with, it's still a very high level of distress, distress mostly because it's a political football, and you don't know. It's like, you know, if if someone like Obama were to come back into office, you'd feel good. For 8 years, you'd be like, oh, god. I'm gonna buy a house or something. You know? Like, you you're definitely I'm gonna live here. But knowing what we have coming on the horizon and the impending of November, you think, like, maybe maybe the the state laws might become federal. I mean, that's a fear that a lot of people have that I talk to right now. It's like, right now, my state's good, but what if this becomes federalized? Ized? What if these things that we're experiencing become the norm? And even if it's not legal issues, you know, may maybe, you know, gay marriage stays legal or whatever you wanna call. But, like, maybe societally, the shift will get very, very large, and people will start taking matters into their own hands. I think that the fear is still I mean, I live in a very, you know, liberal place, and I'm fully recognized in my relationship and all of that. My my my kids are safe, and I don't worry about those things. But it's like, you still live with the fear of, like, who who knows to you know, in November, this could all change or January of 2025 could all change. So what what kind of just to move into that a little bit, but, like, what kind of to you do you see you see applications from the US to be resettled into other parts of the US or to actually leave the country? Right. So it's interesting. We started to notice that, I'd say maybe in 2022, that, because of all of the anti gender, you know, the anti trans legislation that was being passed and, you know, after both internal both internal relocation, like wanting to relocate to another part of the Plus, and some people actually wanted to relocate to Canada and to other and and to other countries. But as you can imagine, because within the US, people are able to find safety, whether safety law or in community or or in other areas of life. What we are able to do is, as much as possible, connect individuals to resources on the ground in the US, you know, so, like, LGBTQIA plus organizations that are able to support them and then prioritize folks who are living in countries where their existence is criminalized across the entire country. So, you know, like so what you said earlier. So if, for example, the US let's hope it doesn't happen. But let's say the US becomes one of those countries where, federally, LGBTQ plus people are criminalized, then it would become, you know, it would no longer become a country of resettlement and would instead become one of the countries where people actually need to flee from. Mhmm. But, you know, we what we we realize that, you know, they're like, the the US is just it's so very unique because, I don't know if you know about the welcome call program that we're a part of and created our communities of care program in order to participate in it. But it's almost like that program, the communities of care program, is an antidote to the anti gender Move, that's that's that's sweeping the US, where queer people are actually coming together in their communities to provide refuge to queer refugees who are fleeing their home country because of violence and persecution. So it's really a very interesting place, you know, because it is it is we're seeing from our own data that it is both a preferred choice for people to want to relocate to. Yeah. And we're also seeing that people are reaching out to us, for health moving they want to leave their particular state or their particular community. Yeah. And and that so first of all, I just wanna be clear. This is called the Communities of Care Program. Program. Right. And I will link to this because I I read about it on your website, and I will link to this in the show notes so people can click through and read about communities of care. But that tension, that space, that is so interesting because Roe v Wade, the overturn of Roe v Wade is when Rainbow Relocation was born because I got, one month, so many inquiries, so many people reaching out, LGBTQ folks, but also just allies, straight folks who were like, we gotta get out of here. Like, this is nuts. Right? And that this tension is so it's so interesting, and it's not. I don't wanna be so US centric and have this conversation all about America because that's what Americans to, and I get it. But at the same time, what a strange place that we can be both a haven for queer folks, but also be a place that queer folks want to escape from. And, I mean, obviously, there's just no clear solution about it, but that's a space that you guys work exactly within within those tensions. It's fascinating, inspiring and terrifying. Yes. All of those things all at once. Yeah. So what do we do here? What does Rainbow Railroad need in terms of how can people help? I mean, I would assume that you need Move. But what are all the ways I bet. But what are all the ways that people can get involved? What communities of care, donating, volunteering? What how can people get involved in your organization? Yeah. So, I mean, I it it it it takes money to do all of this work. I mentioned at the top of the conversation how expensive it is to actually, you know, move people and support people. But, yeah, to things. Donate your time and donate your money. Donate your time because if you are able to volunteer to sponsor a refugee who was who was forced to flee home, that call have a transformative impact on that refugee's life. So if you can donate your time to do that. And it's it's and and when you say donate your time, it's not a lot of time. It's like a few hours per week over a 90 day period Jess to help people to settle in, you know, get an ID, help them secure housing, learn English if English is not their their first language, you know, just help them with the basics, how to navigate, their new community. And and and the Move, like, we I mean, you know that even if you think about even your, like, your Strategies, when you navigate a country like a tourist, it's far more expensive than when you navigate it as a resident. And at least for the 1st few days, that's what refugees are when they Relocation. They're almost like a tourist, you know, because they don't really know, they don't know the ropes yet, You know, they don't know that it may make more economic sense to choose 1 gross this particular grocery store over the other. And so, you know, just just having people in their corner to help them, you know, for that initial period. That's what the communities of care program is about. So that's a way that people can get involved. For for this pride, we're going to be having our solidarity in pride fundraising campaign because, our thing is until all of us are free to celebrate and affirm our own LGBTQ plus identity, then, you know, none of us really are. Yes. And it means that there's a lot more work that we have to do. Yes. And I I I can't emphasize enough just how expensive or costly doing this kind of work is, but it's very important because we see the impact it can have. And so we're hoping that people will join our solidarity in pride campaign. We're we're we're working hard to raise$2,000,000 for this pride. The campaign will run from now until the end of June, so until the end of June 30. We're lucky enough this year to have a few donors who've decided that they will match, you know, the the gifts that people donate, so they can double the impact of that kind of investment in our work. And if you if you're not able to donate your time and if you're not able to to donate funds to us, you can also, you know, have your own little, like, fundraiser. You can have an event where you you tell people about this work, and you can try to, you know, mobilize their pockets if your pocket is not deep enough, for you to to donate. But you know Jess just tap into your network, let them know about the work that we're moving, you know, follow us on social media, check out our website where you'll get the latest information about what is happening with queer people globally and the work that we are doing and the kind of impact we're seeing in the community because of this work. And, you know, you can also reach out to your elected officials because sometimes that's how you, you get, you know, you're able to achieve change. If you're able to reach out to your local representative and just let them know about what's happening and the ways that you would like them to show up for the community, the ways that you would like them to support this kind of work and to, you know, speak out if, you know, you find that your state legislature is trying to pass like homophobic or transphobic laws and that sort of thing, you know, or or just just get involved with a queer organization in your community, you know. So sometimes it's as simple as that. So there are different things that people can do to get involved in this work and to to even learn more about what is happening so that they can stand in solidarity with our queer siblings globally. I want to have this conversation go on. Our I wanna learn more about you. I wanna hear more stories about people you've helped relocate. I wish this this could go on, honestly, and I will I will do my best to help share all these stories that I can and and help with this work. I think it's so important. I feel so lucky that you took the time to chat today. I definitely hope that we can make a little bit of an impact with our own community here. But thank you so much for sharing your story, for the work you do. You're amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, they're, like, such silly words. Yeah. They don't even do you justice. It's alright. Yeah. I really appreciated the conversation. I appreciate the space to be able to articulate. I don't share my story enough, I think, but I find that every time I share it, I feel like the the wound heals a little more. So I I really appreciate the space even for personal reasons, not just for professional reasons. And I think it's because I'm shy, why I don't probably talk as much, but it's really, it's really like storytelling for me is healing. You know, it's a part of my own healing and I think it's important for this work as well. Of course. And, I mean, let's not forget I mean, I'm not your therapist, but let's not forget, you're this is all still new for you. 18, 19 months is nothing in terms of a healing journey, of course. But I think call the more you tell your own story, not only does it, like, help you because you're clearly, like, inspiring other people, but your brain is, like, reorganizing that story from an internal to an external one. And it call can own it rather than it, like, being inside of you. And I think the most important thing for any queer person is to do whatever you can to, like, take anything that could be shame in any way and get it on the outside and and not let shame own you at all. And so telling your story is like a huge part of that. So I'm glad that we could do that here. And, yes, you should write a book and make a movie. That's that's my charge to you. Alright. Call, thank you again. Honestly, I mean, I have to cut this off or I'll make you keep talking to me forever. So thank you. I appreciate you and I I will we will do what we can to help spread the word about Rainbow Railroad and your story. Thank you so much, Jessica. Thank you for having me. What a human, what a story, what amazing work. Thank you so much for listening to our interview with Latoya Nugent. All the links that we mentioned are in the show notes below on how to get involved and donate to their solidarity and pride event during pride month. Enjoy your pride, y'all. We'll be back in 2 weeks with our next episode that looks at how to relocate to Mexico. Don't forget to visit rainbowrelo.com for more information on the work that we do. We're at Rainbow on Instagram, and you can join our Facebook group, Queer Expats as well. We're about to launch a weekly newsletter. And if you've got any bright ideas for clever and catchy newsletter titles, please let us know. Email us at jess@rainbowreload.com. And until next time, this is Jess signing off and encouraging you to follow your call to adventure.