The Adventure Calls Podcast
This is a show with queer folks talking about moving, living and thriving abroad, and relocation specialists in countries around the world who can help you to do the same.
Putting queer folks front and center, Adventure Calls podcasts empowers LGBTQ+ folks and their families to move, live and thrive abroad. Host Jess Drucker interviews experts on relocation, immigration, nomadic and other travel-based lifestyles, international education, finding global queer communities and all the grainy details of actually making a life abroad.
The Adventure Calls Podcast
Everything you need to know to move to Portugal in 2025 with relocation expert Rossana Veglia
Portugal has been at the top of almost every 'Best Places to Move Abroad' list for the last several years...but is it really?
Anything that receives so much attention can't be real... can it? Well, it just might be! If you are interested in moving to Portugal, get out your pen and paper and get ready to take some serious notes, because this is everything you need to know to move to Portugal in 2025.
In this episode of Adventure Calls, host Jess Drucker chats with expert relocation consultant Rossana Veglia, who shares invaluable insights on successfully moving to Portugal. From visa navigation to housing and community integration, you will get to the bottom of advice from an actual expert on how to actual move to Portugal.
Rossana Veglia is the Chief Mobility Officer at Global International Relocation, offering extensive relocation services in Portugal from offices in Porto, Lisbon, and the Algarve. Originally from Venezuela, Rossana has lived in the US, Spain, and Portugal, bringing vast personal and professional expertise in immigration and relocation. Her company supports various visa categories and helps individuals transition smoothly to life in Portugal. With a deep understanding of the visa systems and housing market, Rossana is an invaluable resource for anyone looking to move abroad.
Below are the key takeaways from this episode:
- Visa Processes: Applications take approximately 90 days, requiring thorough documentation, such as proof of financial means and accommodation.
- Housing and Moving: Post-approval, moving takes 5-8 months. Lisbon is pricier, while coastal and smaller town options like the Algarve and Silver Coast offer more affordable real estate.
- LGBTQ Inclusivity: Portugal is welcoming to LGBTQ expats, especially in Lisbon’s Príncipe Real and Bairro Alto, with active communities and inclusivity programs.
- Relocation Support: Companies like Global International Relocation offer comprehensive support, from visas to finding accommodations, with significant presence in key Portuguese cities.
- Affordability: Despite rising city costs, Portugal remains affordable for expats, with smaller towns providing a balance of cost, quality of life, and investment opportunities.
Find Rossana Veglia:
Website: https://global.pt/en/homepage-en/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossanaveglia/?originalSubdomain=pt
Rainbow Relocation Strategies:
Queer Expats Worldwide Facebook Community
@rainbowrelo on Instagram
Your host, Jessica Drucker, can be found online at jessicadrucker.com
The Adventure Calls podcast is a bi-weekly podcast that seeks to empower queer folks to move, live and thrive abroad with interviews with relocation experts, queer expats who have successfully relocated and other organizations that give a lens on the LGBTQ+ experience in the world.
Welcome to the Adventure Calls podcast, where we empower queer folks and their families to move, live, and thrive abroad. I'm your host, Jess Drucker, founder of Rainbow Relocation Strategies. So lately on the show, we've started doing something where we're looking at popular destinations for queer expats who are where the people are interested in moving, and we're featuring 2 different interviews per country. 1st, we're looking at a queer expat who lives in that country to give you a perspective on queer life in the places where you think you wanna move, and then we're speaking to an expert, a relocation consultant usually, who understands the actual facts about what you need to move to that country. So for example, the month of July was focused on Mexico. There were 2 episodes actually featuring Hannah Dixon. She's an entrepreneur and a queer nomad, so we looked at how she's running her business based in Mexico and then also what it was like for her and her journey of being a nomad, being a queer nomad. And then we interviewed the founder of the Mexican relocation company called Host Relocation, Yvonne Pavan. So look out for those 3 interviews actually on the Adventure Calls podcast to get a great perspective on what it's like right now to move to Mexico, Very popular destination. However, today, we are shifting our focus to what I think might be the hottest destination for the queer community right now when people start thinking about where to move abroad to, and that's Portugal. Our Facebook group, Queer Expats Worldwide, it's always buzzing with interest about Portugal. Everyone comes in and at least wonders about moving there. You've got people who are looking to retire in Portugal, move with their family in Portugal, move as a single person, as a couple, and Portugal offers so much. It's not a crazy leap to think that people want to live there. It's definitely much more affordable than many of us, have living here in the United States, for example. It is home to stunning coastlines and beaches. It's one of the safest countries in the entire world and also ranks really highly in the global peace index, and I think a lot of us are looking for a stress free, safe, and peaceful life, so it's not a big leap to consider Portugal. And, also, you know, with Portugal, within 5 years of a residency in Portugal, you can actually try to become a Portuguese citizen, and so within 5 years you have access to an EU passport and then you can go live in other European countries as a Portuguese citizen, but obviously it is not without its challenges. So relocating to Portugal is in high demand, not only from the queers, but from people from all over the world, actually. And the immigration agency there is really struggling to keep up with demand, and people wait a long time to get certain types of approval there. So this is a a really popular destination. There are challenges with moving there. That doesn't mean you shouldn't consider it. It's just something to keep in mind. And the other thing is there's a lot of, not necessarily false information about moving to Portugal, but you've got a lot of people on Instagram, TikTok, bloggers talking about their journey to relocate to Portugal, and that's great. But that is each individual person's journey, and each journey is different. And before we interview queer expats, which we're going to and I can't wait to bring those episodes to you with our interviews with a couple of, fantastic queer expats, before we do that, I want you to hear from an expert who will talk to you about the realities of living in Portugal. And so that's why I am bringing you today Rosanna Veglia of Global International Relocation. Rosanna is the chief mobility officer there. She has obviously a deep understanding of the process of relocating to Portugal, but Rosanna is also an expat herself. She's originally from Venezuela. She lived in the United States. She lived in Spain for, like, a decade, and now she lives in Portugal. So she really understands things from an expat perspective, but also gives us facts about moving to Portugal. So I'm super excited to bring you this episode. It's packed with vital information for anyone who's serious about making the move to Portugal. So if you've been eyeing it and you think you wanna move to Portugal, get ready to take some notes. I really think this is going to act as a resource for you. And please, if you like what you hear, give our show a follow, not only so that you get each new episode right away, but it really does show Apple that the that the podcast is popular, and it can hit even more queer folks worldwide who might find this also interesting. And please also, obviously, share it with anyone you think might like it. But for now, without any further ado, let's talk to Rosanna Veglia. Rosanna, thank you so much for being here today on this live edition of the Adventure Calls podcast. This is exclusive for now in the Queer Expats Worldwide Group. I have to say that I ask everyone who joins the group, you know, sort of what they're interested in and where they're interested in moving. And time after time after time, people say that they want to move to Portugal. This is a huge one. I think you know that. I think the Portuguese people know how popular Portugal is, but I know that this will get a lot of replays in the group and also on the podcast. So I'm gonna ask you to introduce yourself. You're better at that than me. And just give a little bit of background, where are you actually from? And then tell, tell us a little bit about yourself and the company that you work for and the role that you play there. Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Jessica, for the invitation. I'm really excited about this podcast and about sharing a little bit of information about Portugal. It's true. Portugal has been very famous in the past few years, but we love people coming here. So I love doing this informational podcast so people can actually make good decisions when they decide to come. A little bit about myself, my name is Rosana. I'm actually Venezuelan, so I'm not Portuguese. And I started on this business by chance, like, probably a lot of people in this industry. And I think everybody sets out to say, oh, I'm gonna be a relocation professional. We we sort of, like, fall into this, world because we love what it means. So I moved to the US. That that was my first encounter with this industry in Phoenix. I was doing a few courses for college and things like that, and then I started working as a external consultant for a relocation company. And that's when I realized this is a world that I love. I love, like, dealing with people from all over and helping them settle. And so that's kinda like when I dipped my my toes into these waters. Then fast world war, I did college and everything else, and I moved to Madrid. And I lived there for about 8 years, and that's when I see recently started working in this. And now I've been 10 years in Portugal. I set up what we call the DSP area of the company that I work for right now, which is what what we do right now is immigration, relocation, everything that has to do with local registrations. 8 years ago for Global, Global was a international moving company. That's how it started out. And as soon as I joined I think it was 2015. Wow. It's gonna be 9 years now. It was 2015. We were a very small team of 3 people. I had a lawyer. I had a relocation consultant. We consultant. We started doing relocation for people for all over Portugal. Right now, we're about a 120 people in the company overall. We have offices in Porto, which is north of Portugal, Lisbon, which is here, and down south in the Algar. Our team, the immigration and the relocation team, we're about 17, 20 people if we count, like, the external consultants. We have lawyers that help all the expats, and this is what we do 247. So we work a lot with private clients that are wanting to come to Portugal on the different categories of visas, you know, retirement, digital nomad, job seeking visa, but we also do a lot of corporates as well. Yeah. And I think that's really important to point out. So first of all, you are not a a a one man show. Obviously, this is a large company that has a long history, and then you set up the relocation piece. So I think that's important because a lot of people who relocate to a country then say that they're relocation experts. But they just relocated, and now they've helped a few people. But this is literally what you guys sleep Yeah. Eat and breathe, obviously. That's exactly what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that's important, I think, and why I I I'm glad to be working with you and why I wanna have you on is because because you also so you've got people all throughout Portugal as well. So, like, you you're not just, like, focused in Lisbon. You have knowledge about the entire country as well. Yes. We have so we have the offices that I just mentioned, and then we have external consultants covering the smaller towns, in in those areas up north. So wherever someone is going, we'll always have someone that be that's gonna be able to accompany them in in Portugal. We'll make sure that we can cover everything, including the island. So Madeira and Azores, we also cover those as well. And are people moving to the to the I don't know. Asores I mean, Asores. Is are people really moving there? Yeah. I mean, no. A very big chunk of the people are going to Asores. For example, Madeira have different tax motivations than the Lisbon area does. And so a lot of people want to go to Madeira as well. Mhmm. Yeah. No. That that's great. And we're gonna talk about all the regions and, like, what kind of the pros and cons are and why people like to move to those areas. But before we do all of that, so Portugal is really sought after. I think a lot of people dream of relocating to Portugal. It's also become this sort of, like, answer for people because they think it fits sort of almost all the boxes that they're looking for in terms of relocation. I'm gonna let you speak to this in a little bit more detail, but I think a lot of people assume, okay, Portugal, it's part of the European Union. It's relatively inexpensive. I wanna say relatively though because we've had some conversations where I think that's not as true as it used to be. But it I mean, compared to the US, I still think it's relatively inexpensive. It's gorgeous. Let's just say that. There's just beautiful landscapes and architecture everywhere. What do you you feel like when people re when people start thinking about moving to Portugal in your experience, like the aggregate of everyone you work with? What are what do people expect from Portugal? And then what do they find when they get there? So, like, what are people kind of hoping for when they move? And then are they positively surprised? And, also, like, some negatives that they didn't expect. Well, like everything. Right? To have the some of the expectations aren't real. And and when they come here, they realize they're not that real, but in general, it's very positive. So I'm gonna give you a few examples, objective and subjective ones. Normally, when people hear about Portugal, they think about, you know, the food, the weather, the people, and how inexpensive housing is or the the cost of living, and that's the part where things are not true like that anymore. So it is true that if you compare Lisbon for example, which is like European capital with the the prices in this one with other, like London or like Paris or Madrid, we still are a little bit more on the cheaper side than those countries. It's true that in the last 5 to 7 years, real estate in the major cities have become really, really expensive for renting and also for buying. Compared to the US, it's always gonna be in the more affordable size. So we're we're just the the baseline here is for a Portuguese, which, you know, minimum wage is €900 per month. Some people cannot afford renting, you know, a 2,000 2 and a €2,500 apartment on downtown in the city. So that's kind of the part where people gets a little bit surprised when they're starting doing their research in Portugal, because they're expected to be really cheap when it comes to real estate, and right now, it's not. The rest is all true. One of the things that people appreciate a lot about Portugal is because it's a smaller country, and it was relatively unknown for an expat's point of view for many, many years. It still has some sort of authenticity to it. We have a huge international community at the moment here in Portugal, but it's still you can feel, like, you know, the the Portuguese influence. And and if you drive further alone, like, an hour or 2 away from Lisbon, you get to this really beautiful smaller towns filled with with nature, and they're not crowded whatsoever. So that still is true. So for people who is looking, you know, to have a slower pace of life and commute with nature a little bit more, I think it's a great country. In terms of, you know, the big cities like Lisbon and Puerto, they're smaller, but there's a lot happening and a lot going on in terms of, you know, what the culturally speaking and you you have the beach close by, and it's very easy to move. You don't need to have a car. So quality of life, it's improved a lot for people that that comes here. There's a lot of investment opportunities. So, we have a lot of clients who are moving from other countries and decide to buy real estate outside of the big cities, and they can still find affordable houses that at the end are very good investments because real estate here, it's reevaluating on a yearly basis as well. Right? So that's something to consider as well. The food, a lot of people talk about the food. We we're very big on, you know, seafood and fish, and everything's really fresh. There's a big culture of, like, farmer markets and bio foods, and a lot of people now are growing their own stuff. And it's easier to have access to that from from, you know, if you live in a community where people just run stuff, you do, like, exchange with people. So it's like a big thing at the moment. So there's that feeling of living in a in a city. It has everything the the city means, but also it's smaller and it's lower and it's kinder. Another thing that I think is really important, and we can go in more deep into that is that the LGBTQ community here is widely accepted, and and they're welcome. And there's a lot of you know, I have we've worked with a lot of couples here, and I've made friends with with some of them. So for this podcast, I actually talked to them before I came into the podcast because I wanted to understand from their perspective how they felt once they integrated here and, you know, what their were the pros and cons and everything. I told them, be absolutely crystal crystal clear with me, you know, in that sense. And and all they said was positive. I can I can talk to you guys about it afterwards? So, yeah, those, I think that the positives outweighs the cons. One con and one thing that I say to everyone before they come is just expect a lot of bureaucracy at the beginning. Yeah. And this is the one thing that I think shocks the most people, especially people coming from the US, because people from the US is used to, like, quick service and quick answers for everything. And do not expect that in here. Culturally speaking, it doesn't work like that. But then it's a very bureaucratic country in terms of documentation and the legalization and the immigration process. So if you come with the mindset that it's not gonna be quick and that it's not gonna be easy and then you actually hire services from people who actually know how to move in these waters, then it should be fine. Because, we've had a lot of people that were you know, they were their their expectations weren't set beforehand, and they get really frustrated when it takes, you know, 6 months to get a resident permit, for example, or if they're building something in their houses to get a license to do so, it takes a lot longer as well. So I kinda like to set the expectations well because it makes me really sad when the whole experience of coming to Portugal gets it goes on to the negative side for these things. It takes about a year to actually get settled and understand a little bit the culture and and accept this bureaucracy. So don't expect to be very smooth sailing from the very beginning in that sense. Yeah. And I I think that's a really good final point as we move into, like, a different part of this conversation. You hear that from everyone about moving to Portugal that the bureaucracy like, you can say that the bureaucracy is slow, but I think coming from the US, we're, like, first of all, I don't even use cash anymore. I don't even know where my credit card is. Everything is cashless. Everything is fast. I order Amazon. It's here at 4 AM the next morning. Right? So we just, like, get used to this lifestyle. And I think your your introduction to Portugal is the paperwork that you're like, shouldn't this be a button on a website? And shouldn't I just be able to file it? And then instead, it's like 6 months or a year until things actually get sorted. And it's it's hard to especially today, it's hard for people outside of Portugal to really understand that. But it's like if you can get through that part, right, and then Exactly. Yeah. If you can accept that part. That part of becoming, like, a Portuguese immigrant. Right? It's, like, just being able to accept the bureaucracy. Right? That's it. I mean, we we even as I live here, we don't fully accept it sometimes. Some things don't make sense for us. Right. But, like I said, we have processes with the tax office, for example, where you can just, within a click online, you can solve everything, but then you have the immigration side of things, which is very slow and very bureaucratic. And that contrast of why what some things work really well and some others don't is what shocks the people the most. We need to lay it out to this, make sure that people know what they're gonna, find when they come here. Yeah. Most government most governments make it pretty easy nowadays to get their money. Right? They're like, the tax stuff is bigger. That's where they yeah. That's where they invest. The US is also amazing at certain things where you can just, like, pay things back very quickly or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. That's a fact. Okay. So people who want to move to Portugal, maybe this is meeting their expectations. Maybe their dream is a little bit too pie in the sky, and they need a little bit of a reality check. But I think the before you move anywhere, the most important thing to understand is and this is how I talk about it is, like, what's your value to Portugal? Meaning, what value do you bring to this country? And that means, are you bringing certain, like, highly skilled aspects of your professional experience in getting a certain type of work visa, or do you have a remote job so that you'll be getting paid in one country and paying in the other? And and basically, like, paying for things in Portugal, spending in Portugal? Are you coming to retire? So your value to Portugal is that you're getting your pension in your home country and then spending in Portugal. And that really is about visas. Right? Like, what visas can you get to live in Portugal? And visas take on a a very, like, mythical quality in the future expat community of, like, what can you actually get? And so I wanted to talk to you. I I think you just made me aware of another visa before we, live on the recording. I think there's basically, from what I understand in Portugal, three main types of visas that people go for. I wanna talk about all three of them, but I think it's I should make clear and possibly also, like, a student visa or studying or things like that. But people don't really relocate to Portugal for, like, professional like, they don't like or maybe they get relocated through a corporate relocation. Yeah. Right? But, like, usually, they're going as remote workers or as retirees, and then you just taught me about the job seeker visa. So can we sort of talk about what's the difference between the the retirement or the non lucrative type visa and the digital nomad visa? And then we'll get to the job seeker visa. Okay. Sounds good. So like you said, the non lucrative visa was always being used for people who's willing to looking to retire here in Portugal. That's a d seven. Because of the pandemic and before because this is all before the digital nomad visa appear in the system because this this is quite new. When the pandemic happened, we we started receiving now the country started receiving a lot of requests of people wanting to move here without actually wanting to get a job in Portugal. So they started we started applying the d seven visa for people who were not retired, who actually had a remote job, and they were coming here and working remotely for other companies. And it was basically like a it became this digital nomad visa without the name. Right? So, initially, the d o o still, the d seven visa, you wouldn't be able to actually perform work in Portugal unless you request it to the immigration office after you have the residency that you wanted to work and change it. So that's basically one of the things that you need to take into account with the d seven. You need to show the government that you have enough means for the length of that pro that visa, that residency to sustain yourself here in Portugal. And the way you show that, it's with, you know, your savings, your pension, retirement pension, your 4 one k, any investments that you might have, like passive income, like, you know, general investments or if you have real estate rented and things like that. So that's basically the the information that the government will request from you to grant you a d seven visa. So, yeah, the d seven basically is you are able to come to Portugal as a retiree. You don't are actually actively looking to engage in work in Portugal, and you also have enough means, financial means, to show the government that you can sustain yourself. Obviously, there are minimum requirements for the d seven visa, which are you need to open a bank account in Portugal before you even apply for the visa and have funds transferred to that bank account, which are an equivalent of the minimum salary in Portugal, which is closer to €900, not quite, but closer times 12, so for a whole year, if you're the only one applying for the visa. If you're coming with your partner, then you have to have the 12 months for yourself and 50% of that for your time for your partner times 12. If you're coming for children with children, that's gonna be 30% of that minimum salary times 12. So you have to have that money in that Portuguese bank account. That's the minimum requirement. On top of that, you can show passive income investment, retirement funds, anything like that, and that will help the case. So that's basically what the d seven visa is in terms of what will qualify you to apply for it. Apart from that, there are other things that you need to have a clean criminal record, insurance. You need to have a rental or or a place to arrive for the initial 12 months. And I get a lot of questions about this because it's like, if I've never been in Portugal, how am I gonna rent an apartment for 12 months without even being there? And it's true. It makes no sense, but it's one of the requirements. And as usual, we'll find ways around it. So one of the things that we can do is rent or make a reservation for a temporary accommodation for 12 months, and then you show that on your visa requirement, your visa appointment, and then you cancel it for a cancellation fees. And when you arrive in Portugal, you find your permanent house. That's for the visa. If the the the one moment where you do need to have a a rental contract that is, you know, from a house for 1 year that has been registered in the tax office is when you are going to the second phase of the process for the d seven, which is the interview at the immigration office here in Portugal. So by that time, you do need to have, like, a proper rental agreement and everything in place, which makes sense because you will be already been in Portugal. So can I ask you, so that did cut out for me? So I am worried that it didn't get recorded either, and I definitely wanna be able to have this for for the podcast as well. So I don't know why my Internet's going in and out, but that's my luck today. Yeah. Okay. So with the g 7, just to reiterate, so you you essentially just have to show a pretty minimum amount in your bank account and then a 60% and 30% of that monthly rental times 12 for each kid. Right? So it's like if you have 2 kids. Right? That's it. 50% for the partners. For the partner. 50% for the partner. Yeah. Okay. 50% for the partner and then 30% of the monthly average times 12, essentially Exactly. Per kid. And that's it that you have to put into the bank. And in Portugal, you also have to have a certain amount of savings in your bank that you can show, or is it just showing residual income like royalties? Exactly. So there once you does this is the minimum requirement that you have to fulfill to do it. The rest is just supporting documentation. We always encourage people to show as much as they can. So if you have any other residual income, or if you have, you know, a pension that you get paid every month, or if you have property that you're renting and you're receiving an income every month, then you we encourage to show that as well on the appointment because that will just back up the the process. Do they care at all about things like your stock portfolio or a 401 k for the future or anything like that, or does that just not even register? It's an it's an additional positive point into the process, you know, because, it just gives more structure to the whole process, but it's not a mandatory thing. And what if I have another question for you. But, like, what if your visa gets denied for whatever reason and you have this money sitting in your Portuguese bank? You just transfer it out and there's no issue moving that money back. No problem. Yeah. That wouldn't be a problem. But one of the things that we try and make sure is we don't allow people to apply for the visa unless we know that it's gonna go through. So that one reason you might get denied is because you don't have enough funds, you haven't fulfilled the minimum requirements, or because you have a criminal record that shows something on it. That's basically the two options why a Visa will be denied. Okay. Now can you explain why someone would go for the digital nomad visa versus this retirement visa? Now I understand that that this amount of money that we're talking about, not everyone has that amount of money. For, like, a middle class American, it it seems like that's an amount of money you could transfer and put into a bank and have, and then you'd be there on a retirement visa. The digital nomad visa requires that you have a job and you can show this, like, monthly income. So why would someone just not do the retirement visa or the, yeah, the d seven? Well, like I mentioned at the beginning, then the d seven visa, which was initially designed for people who wanted to retire, kinda became this digital nomad visa throughout the pandemic. So the what the government did is okay. We need to actually have in place a visa specific for digital nomads, but it's not the d seven. So that's where the DA, the digital nomad visa, came to be. And the requirements are pretty much similar. The only thing that varies is what you said. You need to have a remote work contract with a company outside of Portugal that specifically shows that it allows you to work remotely in another country be because of tax purposes. You need to have a monthly income of 3,200 something euros. I can I can send that information specifically to you, Jess, and then you can share with the group afterwards, but that's somewhere around that? And you can you also need to show that you have savings just like the ones for the d seven savings, but not in a Portuguese bank account. This could be on your US bank account of, you know, minimum income in Portugal times 12 for you if you're only you, 50% if you have a partner, 30% if you have a child. So you have to show that in savings, but you also have to show that you have a salary, monthly salary. And the requirement is that you need to show the proof of payment of that salary for the 3 months prior to your application for the visa. So they know that you've had this job for a while. So the only difference comes into the documentation that you have to present. Why would someone do 1 or the other? It's a matter of, you know, preferences. So if you have a monthly income of the 3,000 some through 200, but you don't have the full on savings that we were talking about, you can always it can always go through because you are, you know, accomplishing the main requirement even if you don't have the savings, and you can appeal the decision of whereas if you're applying for the t seven, it's mandatory that you have that amount in savings, for example. With the d eight visa, you are able to engage in work in Portugal. So imagine that you are working as a freelancer, and you have clients all over the world, and then you find a client here in Portugal, and you sign a contract with that client, then you are able to do so. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. That you you are you're not able to sign a full time working contract and Valerie. With a com exactly. With a Portuguese company, but you are able to engage with clients here and send invoices to clients here in Portugal and everything else. So that is such a good benefit for someone who's still in their working years. Because that's what I would think. It's like, I live in Portugal. I meet someone. I can definitely do work for you, but I can't work for you. But I can work for you if I'm on the d 8, and I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm on that digital nomad visa. And not only that. With the digital nomad, you not only means that you have to have a work contract with a company outside. You can be a freelancer and have several contracts with different clients outside of the, of Portugal, and you can show that as well as prove that you had a digital nomad. So it's not like you have to have a a proper work contract only. And the sum of all the payments that you receive on a monthly basis, as long as they cover that minimum 3,200, then you're okay with it. Yeah. Okay. And so one thing that's interesting to me as someone who, still in my glory years, was an actual digital nomad meeting. I was, like, spending a day in a country, a week in a country, moving around really quickly. The digital nomad visa is really a remote worker visa because, like, a lot of people who are gonna get that digital nomad visa, they plan on living in Portugal, at least Yeah. At least for the 5 years. I wanna I wanna ask you about this. On both of these visas, you get them for 1 like, you go on the d 7 or the d 8. You that's what gets you to Portugal. In Portugal, then you apply for residency. Correct? Yep. Correct. And that residency at first is just temporary, meaning you have to reapply after 1 or after 2 years? 2 years. So for both, you have what you'll receive first is a visa that is valid for 4 months with 2 entrants to Portugal. And those visas, hopefully, not in all cases happen, but most cases happen, will come already with the date of the appointment that you will have at the immigration office here in Portugal. So Yeah. Does it does it if they're working with the relocation company, but not if they're working as individuals? Because you hear a lot of rumors that people don't get that date. Yeah. It's it has nothing to do with that. It's just a consulate that's processing the visas. Sometimes they they they give you the appointment. Sometimes they don't. It's part of that bureaucracy that we're talking about because, in fact, you know, it's so difficult to get an appointment once you get here in Portugal that we want always the appointment to be at the visa the moment they issue the visa. But it doesn't happen in most cases. So it's probably 10% of the cases, they come without an appointment, and the rest, they come with the appointment. So but, yeah, it's you get that visa for 4 months, and then you have 4 months to actually relocate to Portugal and attend your appointment for the residency here at the Portuguese immigration office. That permit that you will receive will be valid for 2 years, and then you can renew it as long as you have the same conditions that grant you the visa in the 1st place for 3 years. So you can complete 5 the 5 initial years of residency in Portugal. With only one reapplication? With only one reapplication. Yes. Oh, super. And after that, then you're eligible to apply for permanent residency. And as as soon as you are you apply for permanent residency, you can start the process for national for the nationality, to obtain Portuguese nationality. Right. And that is your ticket to European Union citizenship, which I think is sort of the the glory for everyone relocating to Portugal, because there are not that many European countries who do have a 5 year pathway to citizenship. Yeah. It's true. Right. But it it changes. So imagine imagine if you're married to a Portuguese partner. So if you're married to a part Portuguese partner, that timeline changes to 3 years. You can apply for nationality after 3 years. Mhmm. Right. Exactly. Okay. I did not know some of this. This is very not that I'm, getting information for myself here, some free advice, but I'm just saying there are some things I didn't know. Always always interesting. Now let's talk a little bit about this job seeker visa. This is something I don't hear anyone talking about. I did not know about it. Maybe I'm totally out of it. I do know other countries that have a job seeker visa. I'm assuming you get to arrive into Portugal and you have a certain number of months or a year to actually get a job. Is that That's it. How that works. Yeah. So tell me what the how it works. Yeah. It's a it's a actually, the also a new a newer visa. I think it's been on maybe for a couple of years now. What it's doing, it's the it's exactly that. So you apply for that visa. You need to show that you have enough money to sustain yourself for 6 months because that's the the length of the visa. 4 or 6 months, I'm actually not sure, so I can reconfirm that information. But within that time and your visa will already come with appointment to a date for the appointment at the immigration office here in Portugal. So by the day you have that appointment, you need to have already a job offer. You know? Basically, a company that is willing to give you a contract, and that you can, you know, get your residency based on that. So it's quite simple to obtain it in the sense that it's all has to do with the fact that you can prove that you can support yourself financially for the time that you don't have a job here in Portugal, and that you need to with the provision that you need to find a job within those 4 to 6 months when you're coming for for a job seeking. A lot of what's happened and and the way it's been used so we have also the highly qualified visa, which is for mostly for corporate, like, companies are bringing people over to Portugal. They already have a job offer, and they're considered highly qualified because they have a university degree or more than 10 years experience, and their their income matches the minimum required here. But for those jobs where highly qualified is not done, like, you know, if you're coming to work on the on the in restaurants or at hotels or doing another types of job that is not considered highly qualified, A lot of people say, I already have an offer. Let me get the job seeking visa. And when I come, I can just get my residency based on that. Okay. So that that is interesting. And you're right. That is really good for, like, tourism, for hospitality, for For hospitality. Yeah. For that type of work. I just want to make note that anyone listening to this who is from the US or from North America, when you if you're gonna do that and get a job in Portugal, the salary is going to be a lot less than what you're used to. And that's not better or worse. That is just like in the US, our salaries are inflated because all of our costs are inflated, and our cost of living is insane. And in Portugal, like, we keep saying the minimum the €900 a month is the average salary. Gonna say. Yeah. So you should expect that. Correct? I mean, yeah. And not a lot of people make that little. But, yeah, you can someone in a restaurant, probably their their job, it's about a 1,1200 a month, something like that. So it's it's a lot lower compared to the US. Yeah. Exactly. And we had someone in our Queer Expats Worldwide group that was coming from Kenya and was looking for opportunities and had asked that we ask that question of, like, you know, I think they work in NGO and and, community public health kind of work. But that's an interesting visa then for them. Be an option. Yeah. Get get so are you saying though that really and I don't expect you to know everything. But, like, a Portuguese company understands that there's a job seeking visa. And so when you apply from outside the country, they're like, yeah. As long as you can get a visa, we'll hire you. I mean, is that is is that realistic? It's not what happens in it's not the the normal order of things when it happens, but it has happened. So we've had people who already have the job offer in hand, and they just apply for the job secure visa because they don't need to show a lot of documents and things like that and because it's not considered highly qualified. Normally, what will happen is the other way around. Somebody applies, and they come here, and they find a job here. And because they already have that visa and that appointment, companies are more okay with the fact that they can hire that person. Exactly. And that's a fact. And that really does work. And it works in every country you wanna move to. If as long as you can get there and legally look for work when you have that visa, then a company's gonna hire you. But it's a lot likely that you're gonna apply from a whole different country and that they're gonna take you on for a job. No. And and because in terms of timing as well, if we're we're thinking about applying for a visa in general, so even if it's a d seventy eight job seeker, whatever visa that you're applying for, the process itself, it takes about 4 to 5 months. So we always say, you know, you need about a month to get all the documents in place, everything that you need. And then once you do the application, it takes about 90 days for the consulate to give you a response for the for the visa. So that puts us already in 4 months minimum. If there's any delay into getting an appointment at the consulate or or, you know, because some document took a lot, then you're on the 5 month easily. That's not realistic to, like, apply for a job. Exactly. So a company very few companies are gonna wait for you for that long. Okay. And now I we've talked to add knowledge about visas, so I definitely wanna move on a little bit. But I have one final question, and you made a great point. But let's just talk about a realistic timeline for people then because, like, you okay. I wanna move to Portugal. So how long is that gonna take me? And what I'm gathering is you're saying it's like a month to do the get the paperwork together. Yeah. Reply. And so if everything is so bureaucratic and kind of confusing, is it really solidly always 3 months or so to get word whether you've been approved or not? Is that is that something I can count on, for example? Luckily, you live in a country where things work in terms of the consulate. So for every consulate in the US and 90 days mark for giving an answer for the visa, it's normally respected. Okay. That's a US thing. Well, but, no, only we have other countries where where it works perfectly. But if you go to, you know, Africa and countries Okay. Or India, for example, it takes a lot longer. Okay. But, yeah, for the US, it it it's the 90 days unless they request an additional document and things like that. But what we do is we try to submit as much as we can so so we don't have them coming back to us for extra documents. So, yeah, I I would say the 90 day mark is pretty average. Okay. So we've got a month before 90 days to get approved, and then you've got up to 4 months until you have to move. So all in, we're talking like an 8 month window. Yeah. I mean, it depends on you because you you might be ready to go as soon as you get the visa. So in and then in 5 months, you're you're done and you're here in Portugal. But I would say that before you you decide anything, like, in terms of renting a place or anything like that, just consider that minimum 5 months. Okay. So the timeline is important. Okay. I have a couple more questions. And then I do just I do wanna get to what you were saying about the LGBTQ community, because obviously, like, that's our audience, and also that's what's, like, really important too. But I know from a lot of people, I'm in pretty much every Facebook group for Portugal, for Portuguese expats. I know that housing is a big one. You were mentioning €25100 for a rental or whatever, and then some people say that's crazy. That's not really like that. People look at Idealista from the outside world to start judging how much things will cost. But when you actually get into it, people are saying that those prices are totally inflated. And someone recently, I saw, called them, like, gimme prices or something where it's like they just hope to get that much, but, actually, it's far less when you actually go through the real estate process. Can you just, like, talk a little bit about real estate prices, average cost, and how Lisbon, Porto, and the Algarve differ in those prices? Yeah. So, sadly, the prices are the way they are in the sense that you could depending on the areas where you wanna live. The problem is there are specific areas in cities like Porto or like Lisbon that people look to move in to live more. And then you have 2 specific areas. You have closer to downtown for younger couples, for people that are coming and they want to be, you know, close to restaurants and walking distances to, you know, parks and things like that. And normally, here in Europe in general, if you wanna live downtown, that's the most expensive area. So there's a lot of demand, very little offer, and that's where it makes those process increase that much. So€2,500 for a a 2 bedroom apartment in downtown Lisbon, for example, is not a crazy thing. You can find even more expensive than that. But you can also if you like to look for it very carefully, you can also find a lot lower than that. And that will also depend on the type of apartment that you're looking for, if it's refurbished or not. Bear in mind that anything that you will find in downtown, in anywhere, it will be like older buildings. Perhaps they wouldn't have an elevator, so people wouldn't have been able to use an elevator there. They don't have parking places because these are, like, located in downtown. So you need to have a very good idea the type of lifestyle that you wanna have before you decide the area where you wanna live. In cities like this, when important, you will always have if you move a little bit further into the downtown, like, 20, 15 kilometers outside, and you'll find little towns surrounding those big cities that have bigger properties, and the prices are a little bit on the lower side if you compare, depending as well. Because in the case of Lisbon, you have Cascais, for example, which is very famous because it's right by the sea, and, there's a huge expec community in that area. Cascais is also considered a little bit more expensive. And the comparison in area in Porto is called Matosinos, which is also in the in in the coastline of Porto about 15 to 20 kilometers from the city center. And it's also consider you know, prices are kinda the same. Maybe the property is a little bit newer. They are bigger. You might be able to find parking spots when you're going in there. So this it's very important to have an idea what you can get for your money and what kind of lifestyle do you wanna have when you leave here. If you have children, you know, what kind of school your children are gonna go, what's a nonnegotiable for you? Like, I don't wanna drive ever again in my life. I just wanna be close to transport that. That's some some of the things that you need to question yourself before you deciding which areas you wanna leave once you're here because, yeah, it's a small country, and it's very easy to move. Like, public transport here is really good. But if you wanna move outside of the main cities, for example, then you might need a car for. And you might find cheaper properties, you know, for the €2,500, you might be able to rent a house with 3 or more bedrooms and have, you know, good parking spots and everything else, but you will need a car to move around, for example. I will say that If I answer your question did I answer your question? You did. You did. Portugal is easy to drive in, though. I will say that. I every I go on, like, I can do this. Like, this is definitely, like, very dry. Yeah. Yeah. You can answer my question, but I do wanna know about the Algarve questions that I get a lot. Living I know that Algarve is, like, not just one town. I mean, obviously, it's like a whole range, and some towns are much bigger and some are smaller. But is is living in the Algarve kind of like I assume that the population explodes in the summer. But what is it like to live there as a local? Is there, like, a a community of locals that actually stay throughout the whole year? Like, is it Not very locals, to be completely honest. It's local local. Depending on the on the town in in the Algarve that you're going. So if you ask me this question 5 years ago, I would say, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people retire in the Algarve at the moment that live full time there, but then in the winter, it gets a little bit longlier and and not a lot of people is there, but it's not the case anymore. So there's a lot of people they've they've opened a bunch of international schools in the Algarve at the moment. So we see more and more younger families moving there, but you will never get in the Algarve the city life experience. This is more like a beach town. You will need a car to move around because one town, it's further away from the other. There are expats communities, so in the main towns like Faro, Vilamurra, and and all of these areas, there's a huge community coming from the UK, from France, also from the US at the moment. So you'll find you find it really funny because you'll arrive in the Algarve, and the first thing that you will find, it's a Indian curry place for people coming from the UK. Mhmm. Or, you know, find place to eat, like fish and chips, and everybody speaks English, and it's just like being in the UK in a town in Portugal. So that's something to very manage. It's beautiful to have the most beautiful beaches that Portugal has in the Algarve, but it's quite expat oriented and quite, like, retirement oriented in that sense. Even though because they open newer international schools there, you can see, like, a younger population getting settled, like, couples with kids and things like that. But it's always been, like, their retirement place to be. Yeah. Right. Also, one one thing that I wanna that I wanna mention sorry. Sorry that I inter interrupt you. The rental offers are is not very wide because mostly that what people do mostly when they go to Algarve is to buy properties, houses, apartments, and things like that. So it's not very common to rent. A lot of the rentals that are in the Algarve are secure for Airbnb's and for, like, high season. And you will find it very difficult, not impossible, obviously. Everything is possible, but very, very difficult to find long term rentals because a lot of the people is like, yeah. If for 1 year that I rent this apartment with to you, I can make this amount within the 3 years of summer. So we have that problem in terms of housing in the Algarve at the moment. When when I was in the Algarve last year, I my, like, American capitalist brain, which was like, I can't believe this isn't developed yet. Like, there's just so much land. And it really Yeah. I was wondering that I mean, not that anyone should develop it, and I'm not, like, saying that. But I'm just saying it is just, like, remarkable how much open land there is and still is there. And I guess I was sort of wondering, like, is it lonely? Because, like, in between some of the towns, it is just desolate for, like, a few kilometers. You will not see there's nothing. There's nothing. And I just wonder, like, how does that feel, like, like, to actually live there, not just be on vacation? Yeah. Like I said, it gets quieter throughout the wintertime, but we see most peep more people living there on a on a daily basis. You will never have the experience of living, you know, in a big city. I think it's, I don't wanna make any, like, opinions, but I have to say I'm human. And I've been there. I think it gets a little bit boring during the wintertime. But, you know, like, the thing about the wintertime in Portugal is very short lived. So you might see that people starts are start arriving, you know, as early as May, end of April into the Algarve, and people start actually leaving, you know, by the end of October. So if we're talking about being lonely in the Algarve, it will be, like, November, December, like, 4 months out of the year, something like that. Interesting. There and that seems like yeah. That seems right. Okay. So and those are sort of, like, the main regions that people move to. And I think that if you what's what's, like, what's the Silver Coast? What does that involve? The Silver Coast is, so is the area that goes from port from Lisbon up north until Porto. So all that coastline, if you go into the map, into the Portuguese map, you'll see that from Lisbon up north, there's a line that goes all the way to the coast. Those are very small towns. Caldas de Raina, there's a list of those that are becoming more famous with time because real estate is a lot more affordable in there. So people didn't look into the Silver Coast before, and now they're they're looking to invest in there as well. And they're very authentic, Portuguese towns. So at the moment, if you go and relocate to any of these towns, you find a lot of expats as well, but very hard like, a very interesting community of locals. And and depending on the town, you know, you have more of of a, like, a small city life or or coast, like, beach lives. In the coastline, in the Silver Coast, we have towns like Nasare, which are very famous for surfers, and and Nazare and Beniche, which are very, very famous for surfers. You have people going there throughout the whole year. We have the best waves here in November, for example. So there's a lot of a huge community of surfers, of people, like, leaving from the land, and and, you know, a lot of competitions. It's really vibrant in that sense as well. So, yeah, the silver the Silver Coast is becoming more famous. It still is more affordable than, say, the Algar. You have more options as well. So you can go up to living closer to the area of Porto, or you can stay closer to to Lisbon in that, and it will never be more than 1 and a half hour from town one town to the other. So from the Silver Coast to Lisbon or the Silver Coast to Puerto. Right. Okay. And so this is a good time for us to bring in, like, the LGBTQ aspect. Because one of the most, like I don't wanna say annoying. Something really difficult for queer folks is, like, you'll hear this about a country, and you'll be like, oh, the countryside is lovely, or this small town is lovely. And as a queer person, you're like, yeah. But, like, can I live there comfortably and not feel super weird? Am I gonna be the only gay in the village? Are people gonna hate me? You know? Like, am I gonna are my if you have kids, like, are my kids gonna have problems there? And so and that's always something I feel like you know, I think we all know this as queer people, but you pay a gay tax. Like, you pay a tax to live in more expensive places so that you can live around people who accept you, or you live in a place where you're less ex maybe accepted or you feel slightly always a little bit separate from everyone, but you have, like, the big countryside house and the big garden that you wanted. You know? But either way, you're kind of paying for it in a in a certain sense, especially when you're moving to a place that's foreign and you wanna feel safe, and you wanna know that you're making, like, the right choice for you. From everything I understand with Portugal, and it seems like your the people that you've consulted and your former clients agree, people just either are fine or don't care. And I just was wondering, like, what did your what did your acquaintances say about, like, where they live? And just in general, what let's talk about that first, and then I'll get to another question. But like So, yeah. I I don't know how deep I'm gonna be able to go into the subject because like I said, I wanted to come here today and actually bring you guys valuable information for people who has, you know, actually settled here and and and see it firsthand. And all I can say from them that that one of the amazing things in Portugal is that we had, you know, same people's sex marriage law approved a long time ago. It was one of the first ones in Europe. So the Portuguese are generally completely accepting of everyone from the LGBTQ community. Important things for children, the schools at the moment, they have into their pensions. Is that how you call it in in any the programs? They're yearly programs. They have inclusion classes, with teachers, and it's, you know, paid, for by the government, which I think is really important. And this is something that was mentioned. I knew it because we read the news and everything, but it was mentioned from one of the couples that I consulted. They were we're really, really happy with it. So I think their kids are in a public school here in Lisbon, and they're really happy going into that school. And the parents are really involved, so that's a positive thing. About where the areas to live, it is true that most people are concentrated in the cities, you know, in Porto or in Lisbon. But one of my friends were telling me that they also have some friends who live in the in the Silver Coast, in in one of the towns, specifically in Nazare, and they're really happy in the in those areas. Things that they have mentioned, they're overwhelmingly they're overwhelmed with the acceptance. Like, they've never felt judged or, you know, that they were, looked down or anything like that. They're they were really impressed because they did a lot of research before coming to Portugal, and they knew the Portuguese were very welcoming, but they didn't think that it was gonna be that good. They live in a neighborhood in Lisbon that is not specifically the ones that are more popular for the LGBTQ plus community. And and they have their friends with their neighbors, and and they go out, and they, you know, live a normal life. The the one thing that that he said to me is like, it's like I'm one of everyone. It's normal for everyone. So I think in general, they feel like they're very they feel very good. In terms of groups, like, you know, there's a lot of expats group for the community. He said something to me. I don't know if they're widely organized. Like, they have, you know, these big groups that are organized that do activities, but there are smaller groups that organize activities for everyone here in the north, also in the Silver Coast. I didn't gather a lot of information about the Algarve, but I can look at that into you as well. So, yeah, that's basically the information that they gave to me. I'm actually gonna read my notes here as well. I I really I appreciate it very much, honestly, because you hear it a lot about Portugal. But it you know, I think that the difference is is that from what I understand, and this is what seems like what your friends say too, it's not just that, like, people are accepting. I think what we experience in North America, specifically right now in the US, is, like, people who accept you are great. It's, like, also just like the amount of hate that we're nervous about. And once you that sort of goes away Yeah. That's the lightness. It's not just that, like, everybody loves me. It's also just like no one's gonna hurt me. No. I you don't see that here, and that's what one of the questions that I have you actively ever felt like you were discriminated at any point in your life? It's like, not only no, but, like, he feels he tells me, we travel a lot together into smaller towns, and we do the check-in, and they already provide us with, like, a queen bedroom, not separate bed. And I didn't even think about that. And I have to be completely honest because, you know, I've never felt a bit but I never even think about that. When he said it to me, it's like, it makes a lot of sense. It's like, we don't even have to make sure that they give us, you know, a queen bed, not 2 separate beds. Exactly. And he said that he's never had that problem here, that he feels completely at ease. One of the things, I have my notes here, about the areas, for example, in in Lisbon, he says that principal Real and Baguio Alto are the best areas for, you know, finding, like, you know, the groups of the LGBTQ communities where they gather, like bars and restaurants and areas like that. And closer to those areas are the neighborhoods with a lot of people want to live. And I'm gonna just quote what he said to you. In general, this one is very chill about LGBT stuff. Like, they almost don't react to gay stuff. Sorry about the his language, but he wrote it to me like that. They have a very large LGBT evening event in late June each years in Praca do Comercio with a lot of people attending, not only from from the groups, you know, a lot of people that are supporting it. It's kinda like the one in Madrid. He says, he was telling me that Madrid is very big with events like that, and Portugal is a bit smaller, but on the same on the same sense. Got it. Right. But this is my last question for you. Because I think when you start to look at relocating to Portugal and you understand, like, the explosive interest in Portugal, and this is a small country, and everyone says that the Portuguese are so welcoming, but then you do look into certain things. You know? You get into the into the weeds a little bit. Are they still welcoming? I mean, we're exploding the prices. We're making the rents go high. We're, you know, we're we're changing maybe the culture a little bit. There's, Indian food and fish and chips in the Algarve to eat instead of local Portuguese food. Does it still feel is it really so welcoming? And do you expect that it would be still for the next 5 or 10 years while people are really while this kind of boom is still lasting? I mean, I think we we can try to put one finger to cover the sun in the sense that, yeah, it's true that there's some changes that have been happening. I think the real estate situation is something that's taken a toll on the local people a lot In the sense that, you know, they cannot afford anymore to live where they used to live before, but this happened in every other country with massive people relocating. Exactly. At the moment, you don't see any rejection, like, outwardly spoken about making people bad because, you know, they're expats and they're coming here. There's not that type of rejection, not even from, you know, the public offices when you're doing going to do a registration and things like that. If they are, they're very isolated situations. I don't know if this is something that's gonna change. I think a lot has to do with the actual the cultural background of the Portuguese in the sense that they I think they're naturally are people who are very chill and very welcoming. I think if the boom continues the way it has been for the last 5 to 10 years, we're gonna start to see more people being more apprehensive. Yeah. Okay. Rahana, you are just wonderful. This was just an over an hour's worth of free advice. I mean, this was so useful. Thank you so much. We're getting a little tiny round of applause. Oh, thank you. I'm so thankful for you. I will include your email, your company website. Anything that we talked about here. I'll I'll find links and include them in the show notes. And, yeah, thank you again. This is gonna serve quite a lot of people. Amazing. Thank you guys as well for for all the good questions, and, I love shedding some light in in the information. I like people making informed decisions, and we're here to help you out whenever you want and decide to come to Lisbon or Portugal in general. Thank you. Alright. Thank you so much, Rosanna. Bye everyone. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye. Alright. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the Adventure Calls podcast. If you are looking for a community of fellow queer folks looking to move abroad, join us over on Facebook. Our group is called Queer Expats Worldwide. But if you're looking to work with an expert and you really wanna figure out where you wanna move, when you can move, and how you can do it, head over to rainbowrelo.com. That's rainbow rel0.com, and check out all the ways that you can work with us. We are here. It is our mission. It is our vision. It is our goal to help queer folks find their way and live internationally. So if you're not quite there yet, definitely you can pick up a copy of our book. My book is called How to Move Abroad and Why it's the Best Thing You'll Do. I truly believe it is the best thing that you can do with your life. But this is kinda high level. It can get you focused maybe on where you wanna move, but also what the process is and help you get a little bit more realistic about a life lived abroad. It's a great place to start. You can pick that up on Amazon or you can purchase that also from rainbowrelo.com as well. That's a PDF version there. And, again, if you like what you heard, follow the show on Apple Podcasts, give us a like wherever you can, and share this with any other queer folks you think that it might help. It's really, really our goal to help as many queer folks as possible looking to move, live and thrive abroad.